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Zorro_Wolfe89
Member
Posts: 5

Hello again everyone who's reading. I've been constantly working on my sentences the past month and to present and find I'm having a very hard time expressing what I want to say in Vietnamese. I wrote a small poem today and wanted to know if I'm using the correct words in the correct order. Mind you this is a simple poem. When I want to say something very complexed I find I just can't find all the words or I putt them together wrong. Any critique is much appreciated and thank you for reading.


Something new in something old

Knowledge of what the mind locks away

To learn is to be born again

To express is to know this truth


 

Cái gì đó mới trong cái gí đó già,

Sự biết của gì tinh thần khóa đi,

Với học tập với là bẩm sinh trở lại,

Với bày tò với biết này sự thật


--

- I am the wind who helps carries the seeds. I am the shadow behind the shining stars. I like it this way- Me

November 30, 2012 at 8:13 PM Flag Quote & Reply

o0onyto0o
Site Owner
Posts: 6

^_^,



For translating a poem, it will require a lot of effors since there are many types of poems, which have very strict rules in Vietnam ^_^.


Moreover, when it comes to poem, almost of the words we use in normal life will be replaced by other words with the same meanings ^_^. 


For example:


"old" = "già" (it's right), but in poem, we should use "old" = "cổ xưa" or "cũ kĩ" or other words like these.


They both have the same meanings, but the sounds ot them will make the poem different ^_^.


I will try to translate this poem ( I'm not good at translating poem though ^_^). I like to write something on my own more than translating from someone else's work ^_^ (since it'll be harder haha ^^).


Now, I'll translate the meaning of the poem ^^, so it's sure that it'll be not for rhyme sake ^_^.


" Điều mới lạ từ những gì cũ kĩ

Sự hiểu biết về những gì tâm trí đã khoá chặt

Để tìm hiểu là cần phải được tái sinh

Để thể hiện là phải biết đến sự thật này "


As you can see, when a single sentence in English is translated into Vietnamese, it will require more words to add in to make sense ^_^.


If we translate it in a rhyme sake, then, almost of those words I used above will be changed ^_^. Because now, it just translates the meanings only.


I'm sorry, if I had more time, I would try to translate the poem in a rhyme sake as well; but I am having lots of exams now so I must pass this time >_<.


Hope this can help you a little bit ^_^

--


December 5, 2012 at 12:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doctor Tran
Member
Posts: 4

Zorro_Wolfe89 at November 30, 2012 at 8:13 PM

Hello again everyone who's reading. I've been constantly working on my sentences the past month and to present and find I'm having a very hard time expressing what I want to say in Vietnamese. I wrote a small poem today and wanted to know if I'm using the correct words in the correct order. Mind you this is a simple poem. When I want to say something very complexed I find I just can't find all the words or I putt them together wrong. Any critique is much appreciated and thank you for reading.


Something new in something old

Knowledge of what the mind locks away

To learn is to be born again

To express is to know this truth


 

Cái gì đó mới trong cái gí đó già,

Sự biết của gì tinh thần khóa đi,

Với học tập với là bẩm sinh trở lại,

Với bày tò với biết này sự thật


It's not a good idea to translate directly (1-1) from English to Vietnamese or from Vietnamese to English. It requires you to know the two language well to reword it in a different language.  So what you're doing is... you're taking the translation of each word and build a sentence out of it in vietnamese. That will never work, what you have to do is understand the meaning of the source and write a new sentence in vietnamese. One more thing about vietnamese is that each word by itself may not the right meaning... but when you read the sentence (with that word in it), it will make sense. Also, in English you have Big Word or fancy way of saying things... Poem in Vietnamese (or other languages) will use lots of these words... To learn these fancy words or any new word is not hard, it's just memorization. If you have that skill then it will take you less time to remember them. Miss Yen, please correct me if I am wrong :-)

December 7, 2012 at 3:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doctor Tran
Member
Posts: 4

BTW, I am Vietnamese. So my English will have flaws :-) I was never good with grammar in any language and never will be good, so you will see flaws in my Vietnamese too hehe... But I know enough to help those who wish to learn Vietnamese.

December 7, 2012 at 3:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Zorro_Wolfe89
Member
Posts: 5

I've been reading both of your replies over the past few days and I've got to say I'm learning something new everyday. I need to make a note to read up on Vietnamese poetry types and even actual poems.


I will say I'm confused again about sentence making. Doctor Tran pointed out what I'm still doing which is 1 to 1 translation. It's a habit I'm trying hard to break as I know that Vietnamese has a particular structure I think I want to say. When I studied using software they had already made sentences for me and my job was to translate them in my head so that I could remember, read them out loud, and write them on paper and last to memorize them.


Example from the software: What is the girl doing? The girl is eating.

Cô bé đang làm gì? Cô bé đang ăn.

How I read it in my head literally is : Girl do what? Girl is eating.


A sentence I create would look like this: I feel very sad and tired.


How I write it: Mình cảm rất buồn và mệt mỏi.


An example of a few sentences in a paragraph I wrote but struggled to translate and feel it still may be wrong:


I have plenty of hobbies. I just need to pick one and do it. Writing is helping for the moment.


Mình có nhiều thú riêng. Mình vừa mới cần với chọn một và làm nó. Viết văn cúu giúp đẻ bây giớ.


What have a done wrong and what should I keep in mind for the next to to prevent any mistakes. Thank you both for your time. The poetry as I mentioned I'll have to start reading about on the side.

--

- I am the wind who helps carries the seeds. I am the shadow behind the shining stars. I like it this way- Me

December 11, 2012 at 9:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doctor Tran
Member
Posts: 4

Zorro_Wolfe89 at December 11, 2012 at 9:25 PM

I've been reading both of your replies over the past few days and I've got to say I'm learning something new everyday. I need to make a note to read up on Vietnamese poetry types and even actual poems.


I will say I'm confused again about sentence making. Doctor Tran pointed out what I'm still doing which is 1 to 1 translation. It's a habit I'm trying hard to break as I know that Vietnamese has a particular structure I think I want to say. When I studied using software they had already made sentences for me and my job was to translate them in my head so that I could remember, read them out loud, and write them on paper and last to memorize them.


Example from the software: What is the girl doing? The girl is eating.

Cô bé đang làm gì? Cô bé đang ăn.

How I read it in my head literally is : Girl do what? Girl is eating.


A sentence I create would look like this: I feel very sad and tired.


How I write it: Mình cảm rất buồn và mệt mỏi.


An example of a few sentences in a paragraph I wrote but struggled to translate and feel it still may be wrong:


I have plenty of hobbies. I just need to pick one and do it. Writing is helping for the moment.


Mình có nhiều thú riêng. Mình vừa mới cần với chọn một và làm nó. Viết văn cúu giúp đẻ bây giớ.


What have a done wrong and what should I keep in mind for the next to to prevent any mistakes. Thank you both for your time. The poetry as I mentioned I'll have to start reading about on the side.

I think what you and others need is more vocabulary. I have a nephew who was born in USA. His vietnamese is pretty good because that was his first language. But still like you, he confused about the translation sometimes... especially which word to use... so I have told him this and I think it's correct.

Rule # 1. In order to pick the right word, you will have to understand the meaning of the sentence first, once you understood the sentence, then you can pick the word.

Rule # 2. A single word in vietnamese may have more than one meaning or does not have any meaning at all. But if you read it in a sentence or use it in a sentence then it will have its meaning.

Rule # 3. The placement of the words may be backward when you compare it to english. For example, instead of "Red Table" we say "Table Red"

Tip # 1. Sometimes you have to re-phrase the sentence in another way if you don't know the exact translation. People will understand that too.

Tip # 2. If you want to pronouce correctly, then listen to music. I've found that if you love music (who doesn't) then find the songs that you love with its lyrics then listen to them a few times before you sing along and try to match the singer voice/pattern.

Tip # 3. Watch movies with subtitles (good subtitles), read the words while you hear them speak. After a while, you will see the pattern and they way they use the words. This will also help you test your listening skill.

To answer your questions:

What is the girl doing? The girl is eating

Cô bé đang làm gì? Cô bé đang ăn.

 

How I read it in my head literally is : Girl do what? Girl is eating.

I know why you read that way... this is grammar issue. For example, In vietnamese, the adjective goes after the nouce. So when you say  "the red table" you don't want to translate to "đỏ cái bàn" you want to say "cái bàn đỏ" <<< đỏ = red, cái bàn = the table

Perhaps, Miss Yen can give you and everyone else lessons about grammar which is hard in any language. However, I think vietnamese grammar is much easier than english :-)

===================================

I feel very sad and tired.

 

 

 

How I write it: Mình cảm rất buồn và mệt mỏi.

This is a good example about choosing the right word. Remember a single word in vietnamese may have multiple meaning, so the word *feel* should be *cảm thấy* because cảm by itself may have a different meaning. For example if you say "Tôi bị cảm" meaning... "I have a cold"

other versions of cảm are: cảm thấy, cảm giác, cảm nhận, cảm cúm, etc...

So now you see that there is so much to remember.

===================================

I have plenty of hobbies. I just need to pick one and do it. Writing is helping for the moment.

 

 

 

Mình có nhiều thú riêng. Mình vừa mới cần với chọn một và làm nó. Viết văn cúu giúp đẻ bây giớ.

again *thú* is not good enough, it must be *thú vui*

I would translate like this...

Mình có nhiều thú vui riêng. Mình chỉ cần chọn một cái và làm nó. Viết văn hữu ích cho bây giờ.

Here is a quick grammar tips:

Past tense such as worked (did work) we don't have shortcut in vietnamese, I don't think. so we would say *đã làm*. Same with working (doing the work), so we would say *đang làm*

did = đã

***ing = đang

will = sẽ

memorize these 3 words will help you a tons and remember, no shortcuts.

Good luck!


December 31, 2012 at 8:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Zorro_Wolfe89
Member
Posts: 5

Thank you Doctor Tran. I took a break for awhile to give my mind some time to practice listening to the language and can easily pronounce things better if I read a word. Now I'll take the advice you've all shared and start to put it into practice. I'm going to look into purchasing a dictionary to carry with me. Also I'm going to in the summer start reading more about writing poetry properly. Lots to learn for sure.

--

- I am the wind who helps carries the seeds. I am the shadow behind the shining stars. I like it this way- Me

February 15, 2013 at 12:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Zorro_Wolfe89
Member
Posts: 5

Greetings again.

I finally have a dictionary and have been looking over the words and now today I'm testing my sentences making sure adjective is after noun, using the correct word by double checking between Vietnamese side and English side, and making sure also that i have the correct tense.

Sentences are:

I am at doctor office.  (I at office doctor .)  Mình ở văn phòng bác sĩ.

I have much tasks today. Mình có nhiều nhiệm vụ hôm nay.

Today was very busy. Now I rest. Hôm nay đã rất bận rộn. Ngay lức này tôi nghì ngơi.

Have I improved in understanding? Also if I'm using the correct word in a sentence does it tend to flow out of the mouth better? Is that possibly a hint I've gotten it wrong if it doesn't?

If I'm getting close then I will continue to practicing with simple sentences. Thank for your help so far Ms. Yẽn and also Doctor Tran.

--

- I am the wind who helps carries the seeds. I am the shadow behind the shining stars. I like it this way- Me

March 7, 2013 at 10:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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